(auto-translated)

‍

Kaylin Dillon  00:00

I always say, like, if you're 100% sure before you've even had the conversation, this is something that's important to me, and it actually would be a sticking point if we couldn't get one. Like, then just be honest. But usually people are not that sure. They're like, I think I'm really interested in getting a prenup, and that is probably most people's situation. So in that case, I suggest bring it up as early as possible and let it be something that you're exploring together.

Natalie Slagle  00:35

Welcome to Money dates, the podcast that makes money, conversations with your partner feel a little less taboo. I'm Natalie Slagle, a certified financial planner, and I'm joined by my husband and business partner, Dan Slagle, also a Certified Financial Planner. Say Hi, Dan, hello. In each episode, we'll share honest stories and practical tips to help you and your partner feel more connected and confident on your financial journey. So grab your drink, get comfortable and join us for our money dates.

Dan Slagle  01:06

Today. On money dates, we talk all things prenup with Kaylin. Dylan. Kaylin is a certified financial planner who specializes in working with couples with separate assets, prenups or blended families. She wrote the book prenup partnership and founded the prenup coach to help engage couples have better money conversations before they say I do. If she's not talking about money and marriage, she says she entertains herself by following real time court cases involving spouses. Caitlin, welcome to Money dates.

Kaylin Dillon  01:38

Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Natalie Slagle  01:41

Yeah, we're excited to have you. Prenups, post snaps. I feel like those two words create certain feelings for everybody, right? But before we get into your expertise, and I know you are just like this plethora of knowledge with that, I want to learn more about you. Like, what is life outside of work look like for Kaylin.

Kaylin Dillon  02:04

I live in Lawrence, Kansas with my husband, and I have a 10 year old daughter, and so life outside of work is a lot of typical mom activities, school drop offs and pickups and that sort of thing. And I do have a slight obsession following court cases involving spouses. And I would like to say I have, like, lots of other really interesting hobbies, but mostly I like to puzzle and do things that are just like easy to fit into, working a lot and being a mom.

Natalie Slagle  02:39

Yeah, I love a good puzzle. And you can just start and stop at any moment. You know, you could spend two minutes. You could spend two hours. It's puzzling is great.

Dan Slagle  02:50

It's true. I have a question, do you puzzle with your partner? Or is this

Kaylin Dillon  02:55

like, No, my husband and my daughter like to, like, swoop in at the last minute and and take credit, like, really satisfying last pieces, they don't really take credit, but they're like, Oh, I see one. I'm like, Well, you could see one, because there aren't that many left to place.

Natalie Slagle  03:11

That's, yeah, they're coming in at the best part. I love that,

Dan Slagle  03:15

because that's exactly what happens in our relationship. Natalie loves to puzzle occasionally, and I just, it doesn't, it doesn't do it for me necessarily, but yeah, if the person's closer to the end of the puzzle, I'll be like, Oh, I'll jump in and and help out.

Kaylin Dillon  03:29

Yeah, I think I have a story, a series of stories, on my Instagram, like, stories, whatever highlights. That's what it is. Of some puzzles that I did that were like, I started them, they were way too daunting, and it turned into a whole saga. And if you're interested, it's there.

Dan Slagle  03:45

I love it. I love it. And just a quick shout out, this, is this your the prenup coach Instagram, it's actually

Kaylin Dillon  03:51

my Kalen Dylan financial Instagram, just to really confuse everybody,

Natalie Slagle  03:55

we'll have to talk about both. And I'd love to hear why you you've separated those two. But one of the things you shared with us prior to this recording is that you actually have a prenup with your husband. Yep, I do. Yeah. Like, how did that even come about? Talk to us about what that conversation was like, yeah.

Kaylin Dillon  04:15

Okay, well, my husband and I got married fairly young. We were 21 I was not I was still in college and not in finance. I was studying Chinese and French at the time, so didn't even know any of the things that I know now, but my husband was the one who had brought up that he it was important to him to get a prenup, to protect assets that he had before getting married, that he had inherited from his grandparents. And the very first time he brought it up was it was just really interesting. We did a lot of things right and a lot of things wrong, and the things we did right, I think, were by accident, but one of them is that he brought it up really early on, when. We were dating, so I knew that was something that was important to him, and he framed it as something that was important to him, not like, hey, just so, you know, in my family, there's this rule, which sometimes is the case, but I do, it never occurred to me that to consider anything else except the fact that it was important to him. I think a lot of people I do run into, a lot of people trying to kind of skirt around that really important detail. When you're talking to your partner about something you're asking for, that's a little bit scary. Sometimes it feels easier to to suggest that, well, my financial advisor suggests or whatever. Oh, yeah. And if it's important to you, it's really important to bring up that it's important to you. So that was something he did like so, right? And we didn't, I didn't even know all the options on the table at that time. So that's how we started the process. Things we did wrong were we very quickly, were communicating between our attorneys. Because I assumed, you just hire the expert, right? You hire an attorney. They're the expert on this subject, and they tell you what to do next, right? And they don't really tell you what to do next. But if you're not directly communicating with your partner about what do we want in this agreement, that is what ends up happening. The attorneys end up talking to each other, and then you're getting updates from your attorney instead of from your partner. So that went south pretty quickly, and was really tense and just overwhelming. Like in my notes on one of the first drafts, in the margins, I have, like, what is a brokerage account like? I literally did not know. And so it was a lot of terms I didn't know. And so part of what I do now with the prenup coach is help educate people on all these different topics that are helpful to understand no matter what, but especially if you're getting married, starting to merge finances, merge lives, and especially important, if you're getting a prenup, because an attorney is not the person who's going to educate you on it would be way too much and expensive for an attorney to be the one to educate you on all these topics. So yeah, that was something we did, did not do, right? But we are both very headstrong people, so we made it through despite the fact that this process was unpleasant. We did make it through to a final draft that we both felt really good about in the end. Even though getting there was not fun and we weren't like fighting with each other, it was just more it felt more stressful internally, I would say. And so that's another, just very critical component is ending with an agreement that you both feel really good about. When people talk about how prenups can be harmful, that's coming from a number of people's, many people's lived experiences, which are they signed something they don't feel good about, and that I hear stories from people who have done this. It hangs over your relationship. It becomes a whole thing. It's like another entity that's really affecting your interactions and your decisions, one that can be remedied, by the way, you can amend a prenup. But yeah, that's kind of the process that we went through. We were kind of young and clueless, but it did set a really good foundation for like, financial conversations and feeling comfortable being like, Okay, well, this is yours. This is mine. How much do you want to contribute to this thing, that

Natalie Slagle  08:28

sort of thing? Have you had to amend your own prenup?

Kaylin Dillon  08:33

No, oh,

Natalie Slagle  08:35

that's impressive, considering you did it so young, and I'm imagine you, your lives have changed significantly since then. But to your point, you you kind of have these tough conversations in the beginning so that conversations down the line are already set. So like, how even though I'm you haven't had to use it, or it hasn't come to fruition or anything. So how do you think it has benefited you, too, though, having the prenup in place. I do think,

Kaylin Dillon  09:03

I think the number for us personally, this is pretty specific, but how it's helped is really more just that, you know, like in your in the difficult seasons of marriage, which there will be, we all dislike uncertainty, and so having a little more clarity around like there's a whole category of things that we we already know how they'll be addressed, and so it does just lift some of that uncertainty. It helps that we're both, we both continue to be in a position where we feel like what we agreed to was fair the plus my husband, even though he inherited these assets, he still used them to fund things in our marital life, and so I was still was benefiting from this money that he inherited and wanted to protect, and vice versa. I technically had much smaller inheritance that I protected in our prenup too, and as I've been able to use some of those I have, but. Also, because there was, like, a lopsidedness to it. For a lot of years, it was like, Oh, I'm getting a little bit of money from this thing. And for me, it was like, I am keeping that separate because I don't have, as we're at the time, you know, I didn't have as much in terms of a safety net if we were to split and if we weren't to stay together. And so it helped lay the foundation for those types of conversations we were always very comfortable having, and my husband never batted an eye when I said, I'm receiving this money, but I'm putting it over here. And also was always very generous with the money that he brought to our marriage.

Dan Slagle  10:39

Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing your personal story. It's really amazing just seeing where you were, like, when you said you were 21 and completed this, these documents to where you are now and now, having like this specialty and expertise in this, and that's really, really admirable. I can we back up just a little bit, because I feel like some of our listeners may not even know, like, the process of, like, getting a prenup. So is that something

Natalie Slagle  11:05

you could is a prenup? Like, yeah, yeah. But like, yeah, you're right. Expert, explain what it is.

Kaylin Dillon  11:13

It's really just an agreement that takes effect upon marriage, and it is intended to be financial, and usually it's governing, how would your assets be split if you were to get divorced? But you can choose what you're putting in your prenup or not putting in your prenup. And so everyone, every state, has default laws around what's marital property, what's or what separate property? In some states, it's called community property. But despite some commonly misheld beliefs, they're treated very similarly in divorce, both marital property and community property. So the prenup is basically saying, I want to override what those default rules are, at least in these categories and whatever you have in your prenup. So for instance, first draft of our prenup included terms around what would happen to our shared marital home, which we didn't have yet. We were renters at the time. It was just like a hypothetical so you can put things in here that don't exist yet. Unlike a trust where that can only govern things that already exist, a prenup, you could say hypothetical business I don't own yet. Here are the rules for it. So had terms around a house, and I was like, that was one of the items that I thought that does not seem fair. I can't even imagine being certain right now that future me who may have children. And I mean, it was, I don't even know what my situation might be but I can't be sure. I want to agree to anything around how I would split it. So we just remain, ended up remaining silent on that subject. It's just not in our prenup. And so if we were to split, that would be one item that we would either have to come to an agreement, or if you end up going to court, that's when those default laws kick in, and the court would decide what happens. It reminds

Dan Slagle  13:05

me of the conversation Natalie, you and I had when we first completed our estate plan. We didn't have our daughter at the time, but it was like naming a within our will, naming the guardian of like an unborn child. It's hard to imagine. It's hard, yeah, it's hard to imagine. It's hard to make, like, an educated decision around that, because it just doesn't exist yet

Natalie Slagle  13:23

well, and that's why I feel like your point. I mean, it's just some of these things, if it's so obvious when you hear it, but you don't think about it at the time, but you can always amend it. So as your life change, you just go back to the prenup and amend it. Now, a lot of our clients are married, and so then it's like, oh, I missed that opportunity. But that's not necessarily the case, at least from what I know, there's this thing called the post Nup. So could you talk about that? Like, what happens Dan and I, we do not have a prenup, we do not have a post Nup. Like, what about for those who are married? What options do they have when it comes to these types of conversations? Yeah, married

Kaylin Dillon  14:05

couples can get a postnup. It works very similarly. In a few states, there are some special rules that basically say, like you have to when you're getting a prenup. Anytime you sign a legal agreement, each party is giving up some sort of consideration, legal consideration, if you're not yet married and you're getting married by default, that is considered a legal consideration. So I could choose just not to marry this person, and that's so I could, basically, I could choose to either take on the pros and cons of what comes with marrying somebody or not if you're already married, some states are a little bit stricter about meeting that threshold for legal consideration. But other than that, it's just as simple, and things that after you're already married meet that consideration are not that difficult. Able to come up with, probably, if you're considering a postnup, you qualify, because it could be something like somebody's thinking of leaving their job and taking care of the family full time, and or somebody has committed infidelity or has a gambling problem, and the other spouse is saying, like, I really want to work on this, but I need some assurances that I can give you space and time and room to work on this problem, and it's not going to take me under and so, like, a postnup clause for a person in that situation that I've seen might say something like, all of the debt you've taken out in your own name is yours and and going forward, anything you take out in your individual name is yours. And that can free up a spouse to just be a supportive spouse and not have to. Of course, if you remain married forever, that's still a stressful thing, but it can just like, give some breathing room when a couple needs it.

Dan Slagle  16:03

Caitlin is there typically, like an event, like some sort of life event that leads to married couples drafting a post up, like what you were saying, whether it's gambling

Kaylin Dillon  16:13

a lot of times,

Dan Slagle  16:14

maybe like an inheritance, infidelity, whatever it may be, it seems like okay

Kaylin Dillon  16:19

could be. But I've also seen, just like I have not liked how we've managed our finances for X number of years, and I've realized, like every retirement account and all of our investment accounts are actually titled in his name, and legally, if those were created during marriage and you don't have a prenup that says otherwise they are marital property. But sometimes these things just feel unfair enough to a person that they want to address it, and they're finally finding their voice and bringing that up, or just they just learned that's an option, and so they're interested. It also could be that, like they already had a prenup that they didn't like and they're wanting to amend it. That is an amendment. It's not a postnup. So maybe that's not the best example, but that's another one that I see. It's like some thing got set up some way in the past, and they want to address it now, because it's just not fitting.

Natalie Slagle  17:15

I could see, I mean, there's two big examples that we've seen in our client base, and it's one parent deciding to no longer work. Well, that's going to mean that all the retirement contributions are going to the working spouse's retirement plan. So years and years of that. You know, when we look at the balance sheet and split it between individual, individual and joint one of the individuals, the working spouse, I mean, that's just, it's significantly larger. And so there's so many just situations that you hear these, these folks who decide to be a stay at home parent, and then the marriage doesn't work out. And there's just this personal and professional just thing you have to face of, like, what did this mean for me now that we're splitting up and sure, the assets are, you know, and the laws are in place to help protect that person, but you wonder if more protections are needed, because there's this professional career that was given up and now, like, what is the trajectory of that look like? So something like a conversation that a prenup or a postnup can create could help alleviate some of that, and then also the inheritance. I mean, we're seeing clients getting significant inheritances, and you can't really plan for that. You have no idea. And so what is it like if you receive hundreds of 1000s, or maybe even a million or more in money from your family, like it just creates a situation that when you first got married, you just had no idea it was going to fall on your plate, right?

Kaylin Dillon  18:54

Yeah, yeah. And most states default laws say that inheritance is protected as separate property, but there's a gray area. If you are heavily relying on those assets to fund your marital expenses, you start to create a get gray area. If you've commingled the assets with your marital assets, you've created more than gray area. So yeah, there, even with those default laws in place, it could still make sense to get a post up. Just to clarify, here's how we see these assets, and here's what we would want to happen. But usually the same way that people who are getting a post up have the same attitude that people who are getting a prenup have, which is like, this is not in preparation for a divorce we expect. It's really like, this is something to give peace of mind while we're married and we intend to be married, which is why I always try to take my clients through a financial plan first. First, I do do standalone prenup coaching, but it is ideal if we can work on a joint financial plan together first to just kind of really solidify, like, here's Plan A, and this is what we're working on, and working towards a prenup or a post up, is really it's a Plan B, but it's also, it's peace of mind, something that helps people sleep at night and hopefully, like, resolve some tension. If there is a tension point,

Natalie Slagle  20:28

yeah, definitely. Let's say someone's listening to this and they're thinking, Oh, maybe I should do, you know, depending if they're married or they're not married, I should do this. I should look into this more. What is step one, like, who are they going to you? Are they going to an attorney? Are they looking up? What are my state laws and like, what is step one when someone is just wanting to learn more about what them and their partner should be doing?

Kaylin Dillon  20:57

Yeah, so when I started my financial planning business, what I envisioned was focusing on financial planning work for people with separate assets. And so I did do a lot of talking about prenups, because I thought, like in my situation, that kind of laid a foundation for having separate assets. Maybe that will speak to other people. But really quickly I was getting inquiry after inquiry from engaged people, some married people, but they were asking exactly what you're asking, because for most people, that first step is actually calling the attorney. That's what we did when we were getting married, and it's intimidating. And so I was getting tons of inquiries about just okay, but can you give me some tips or guidance? And at first I was like, that's not really what I do. And but very quickly I realized, you know what I do, have tips like I learned lessons when I went through this process. And so over time, I just I created a guide to help people with that. That's what my book is, prenup partnership. I also have an online course. It's the same content to take people through. Here's like the ideal path, and that starts with working on how you talk about money, and working on a joint financial plan, and then learning about what are the default laws, what are our options if we do want a prenup, and getting kind of educated on that. And then the ideal goal, though, no matter what, even if you want to skip over all of that, all of those, is you really want to talk with your partner and be very clear between the two of you. What are your goals for the prenup? You don't have to know legalese. You can it can be what I do with my client, my prenup coaching clients, we end up with just a short bullet point list in totally plain language, like we're not drawing up the document, just as here are the goals for this agreement, so that the two of you are totally on the Same page before you call attorneys and start that process, it also helps make sure that first draft is much closer to the final draft, then you have a lot less in attorneys fees, which is nice and a more pleasant experience. So that's like, that's the ideal path. But I wouldn't say, I mean, I mostly made that up because I just was seeing it done wrong, and I did it wrong, and I was seeing it done wrong so many times.

Dan Slagle  23:25

Yeah, do you have any thoughts or guidance on because I'm assuming I miss well, I shouldn't assume, right? We all know what happens when you assume. But does it feel like, typically, one partner brings us to the other, or, like, in your ideal world, I'm sure it's a collaborative approach, like before even starting the process, right? But I'm just envisioning that there could be this moment of tension, whether you're the one providing the news that you want to get a prenup or postnup, definitely, if you're receiving it, like, I could see that happening. So do you have any like, thoughts or guidance on how partners should go about these conversations. Yeah, ideally

Kaylin Dillon  24:05

you want to bring it up as, I mean, I always say, like, if you're 100% sure before you've even had the conversation, this is something that's important to me, and it actually would be a sticking point if we couldn't get one like, then just be honest. And so I'm not suggesting anyone be dishonest, but usually people are not that sure. They're like, I think I'm really interested in getting a prenup, and that is probably most people's situation. So in that case, I suggest bring it up as early as possible. Me really as early as possible, and let it be something that you're exploring together. That is a much better approach. It also gives you some room to be like, Well, how do we want to manage our finances? That could really color what ends up in that agreement, or if you get an agreement, but sometimes. Someone already knows, like, I own this business. I've been divorced before. I am not going through that again, and I really want some clarity that, like, this business cannot be taken from me or and I'm not going to have to be paying distributions to an ex spouse in the future from this specific thing and or I used inheritance to purchase a home that I know we're going to share. And in those cases, you still want to bring it up as early as possible, be really honest about why it's important to you, and becoming to your partner from that perspective of like, here's what, why it's important to me, and try to lead with like what that would offer you. And just know if you're asking your future spouse to give up something that they otherwise would have legal rights to in a marriage, then there's probably something else that you should be giving up as well. And so there you can open up this conversation as something that's also making room for them to think about what's important to them. And I always tell couples or the individuals who are, say, marrying someone with significantly more wealth or what feels like a lot more to protect you know, it's not really fair to a future spouse with less money, but it's really important that they spend a lot of time thinking about what would help me feel reassured and a little more secure and safe. Because if you want to end up with an agreement that feels like it was a fair trade off this thing that your partner is asking for to help them feel safer, like you need to really spend some time with thinking about what would make you feel safe. And something I hear frequently is like, I just want to know I'd be okay. I don't you know. I don't necessarily want his millions, or I don't want her house. I just want to know I'd be okay. And that sounds great, but it's not enough. And it's just not enough information to go on. We need you to really think specifically about what would give you some peace of mind and safety, and that's how it's going to serve you well, like during your marriage,

Natalie Slagle  27:08

yeah, well, and I love at the beginning, you were talking about just what happened with you and your husband, and it sounds like just from the get go, he was like, This is what I want. This is what I need. We need to figure that out, and it at least the way you described it. It sounds like it was done early in the com, you know, like, hey, just so you know this, this is something that is important to me and but you also talked about your personalities and how it's just kind of fitting for both of you. And I think about we're all certified financial planners. Here it. We just can talk about money like we're just naturally curious about it, where you know it's and I know that's not how your journey started, right after school, but obviously we all had this comfort with talking about money, where I think that's not the norm. So to your point, it's like you don't have to be an expert. You don't have to know exactly what you want. You just have to know that, like, hey, there's, there's this thing out there that exists. And maybe we should start having a conversation with professionals about it. Like, just bring it up, right? Like, you don't have to be an expert. You don't have to know what you want, but you might know that. Like, even just having the conversation could be really beneficial for the relationship in the long run. Yeah, yeah,

Kaylin Dillon  28:27

that's what you just described. Would be the ideal path, for sure.

Natalie Slagle  28:31

I'm sure it doesn't always so I can't help it, but I love me a juicy story. Like, I'm sure you've got some juicy stories over there. Kaylin, of like, you know these court cases that you like researching, like, there's got, I'm sure it's not the boring ones where everything went as planned and everyone got half and it's all happy go lucky. No, there's got to be like, in your line of work, I'm sure there has been stories that you're like, This is why I do what I do. You got any stories for us? Caitlin, I've

Kaylin Dillon  29:02

got a few. Just a quick PSA, first on so one of the stories I was following recently was the Corey richens trial. I don't know if he saw anything on that, but she did have a prenup that. And I don't necessarily follow cases with prenups, but this one had one, and the prenup did say you have no rights to your husband's business unless he dies before you. Then she would inherit he owned half of the business. So she'd inherit that half. Actually, it would get bought out in a Buy Sell agreement. She would receive those assets if they were married when he died. And what she totally skipped over was that it doesn't have to say this in your prenup, but it does not apply if you kill your husband. So that's like she didn't you know, she thought this plan would work, but it did not, and she was convicted couple of weeks ago, but that's not a. Client story I've got. I mean, I do have some really juicy ones. I don't think I could bring myself to betray clients with too many specifics. But most frequently, what I've seen with post nups is infidelity, and that's one that I've seen of post nuts. That's what I've seen the most frequently, and it does usually involve like an element like I described earlier, of somebody finally found the courage to speak up for something that that didn't feel fair all along, probably, or had started to feel less and less fair all along. And then this was, like a final breaking point. And it was like, well, if we're going to work on this, we're going to do some things on my terms now going forward. And here is the list of stuff I wish we could do differently. And it might be how accounts are titled, it might be how, you know, where income is deposited. And so creating some rules around that can be helpful.

Natalie Slagle  31:03

Are you saying just, just so I'm I'm following, right? Are you saying that infidelity in a marriage could happen, or, like, you've seen the infidelity happen, and then they go, get the post now, yes, interesting, because I guess you know, just because there's infidelity doesn't mean you're going to separate, right? Like, no. But now you're like, well, now I know that that was something you did. I don't want it to happen again. You told me it's not going to happen. I want to believe you. I do believe you. Just in case, let's work on this, this additional piece to give me that comfort blanket, so that that has been what you've seen. I can see why you don't want to give the details that that makes sense. But also, like, kudos to couples for, like, saying, hey, like, maybe there's a way to work on this, right? Like, that's, yeah, it's interesting.

Kaylin Dillon  31:50

Yeah, that's really interesting, absolutely. And I did, I've had a couple they got a the reason for the prenup was a history of gambling, and he had gotten, like, you still call it getting sober. He'd gotten sober and was doing really a couple of years into doing very well, and had a bankruptcy in his past and so, but his future wife wanted to feel like they were make being really responsible in making this decision to merge finances, and so she wanted some protections in place as well, and that can be a really good use case too.

Natalie Slagle  32:29

Yeah. I mean, I think any sort of addiction of any kind, could be a really important element to talk about the financial impact should a relapse occur. I mean, just having this conversation alone, I think it really starts to open up the web of all different reasons, all different things that could come up that nobody wants to have happen nobody can plan for. But wow, isn't it really solid that should something come up that no one expected there. There is a plan in place that protects all parties. That sounds nice, yeah,

Dan Slagle  33:10

one of the other reasons you said couples typically or not typically, but one of the reasons that they would approach getting a prenup is a family requirement. Could you talk a little bit more about that? Oh yeah, yeah.

Kaylin Dillon  33:25

I mean, I've run into this a few times where the family has said, like, Hey kids, they're saying to their children, like, you have to get a prenup, and we've got all this family money, and the kids are have just kind of had this understanding, but then they get engaged, and the conversation was, however they went about it, it wasn't going well with the future spouse. And I do know at least in one case, it was presented like, Well, hey, my family requires this thing. And it was like, Well, yeah, of course, that's not sitting well if you're It feels very intimidating, especially to somebody who has no experience with legal documents with complex financial structures like irrevocable trusts and things like that. That's very intimidating. And so in those cases, it wasn't like there was more than one case where the family was saying, Well, if you don't do this, because you technically can't force a couple to get a prenup, so their lever of influence was, well, if you won't get a prenup, we won't be gifting to you annually, or we won't be Doing XYZ financial thing that we're intending to do. And so couples really have to make a choice. And I've seen couples make choices in both directions. So I've seen couples decide like, okay, yeah, my family's gonna be generous with us. Let's just like, get through this. So they did. And I've also seen a couple decide a. As partners like you know what? I don't really like how this feels, and let's just figure out our own way, knowing we're foregoing potentially a lot of financial support that we were about to get, every situation is different. I definitely can't say what a couple should or shouldn't do. It's tough. Family dynamics are difficult, and I don't necessarily want, like my couples, to automatically make the choice that's potentially cutting out family members when maybe there's another way around this conversation. So I do try to for couples in that situation, I do try to give them some coaching around, like, why are these the only two options that are being considered? One you could go get, by the way, you can go get a prenup and not ever tell your parents actually what's in it. Like they don't have to know. You could just go mimic your default state loss. B, you could step up and really have some tough conversations with your family and try to come to a more middle ground agreement. And I do think not all parents are the same, but I do think that they sometimes respond pretty well to seeing their children step up and like make that decision that you know what this is going to be my future family. We're starting to think about how we want to do things. Here's what I know, what I know I care about, what matters to me. What you're suggesting is not sitting right with me. Like, is there something that is there some way about this that helps you feel like this family wealth is protected enough that we could include this lets us move forward without this like whatever their terms were that they

Natalie Slagle  36:46

weren't liking I can totally see why this can be a contentious conversation. You think about you're about to marry into this family, and I feel like most people in those situations, they just want to be liked by the other family, right? It's like this really big, new happy thing. And then again, you're young, you might not really understand the ins and outs of financials, and they're slapping you with this, Hey kid, you're coming in the family. You don't get access to this wealth like and obviously I would think most families, they're not. That's not the perception. It's just, hey, there's a lot of responsibility here. This is how we're all managing it. It is very, you know, it's just, but it can be hard from the person that's getting married in it's just that can be just a hard thing to process, even if it really is maybe the right decision on behalf of the family. It's just it's a unique situation for someone to be in. Yeah, I heard

Kaylin Dillon  37:47

that, and that was really my certainly felt like my position when I was getting married, and I've heard that position referred to as the Outlaw, like you're the in law, but you're like, you're on the outside of that family. And so I have a chapter in my book and a lesson in the course on, you know, tips for the Outlaw. And because it is really intimidating when this family has a whole team of professionals already on the ready to help them. They already have the attorney, they already have the financial advisor. You've never hired an attorney before in your life. You don't even know what type to call or what it's going to cost. It's incredibly intimidating. But usually, most families are coming from a place of like, this is really just about grandpa started this business, and Uncle so and so has already been divorced, and this aunt has already been divorced, and we've already seen, you know, we've already had to bring outsiders into this partnership, basically, who grandpa was never intending to support this other family that's technically not even our family anymore. So like usually, most people are coming, are coming from a good place, and there is common ground you can find, and especially if you're willing to have some more conversations, more detailed conversations, and be a little creative about what's going to help everyone protect what matters to them. So I really think usually, most of the time, both sides are being coming from a really reasonable place, absolutely.

Natalie Slagle  39:27

Well, we've really enjoyed this conversation. Kaylin, like you've just, I mean, you've you've opened my mind. I think there's things Dan and I should talk about and consider, and along with our audience, you've mentioned a couple times you've got a book. You've got your Instagram. The Instagram is the prenup coach and the book you can find on your website, Caitlin dylan.com, is that correct?

Dan Slagle  39:50

Yep. And book and course, right?

Kaylin Dillon  39:52

Yeah, course. And website.

Natalie Slagle  39:55

We hadn't mentioned this yet, but it's like, people might be like, how do you know Caitlin? We met? Kaylin, quite a few years ago at a conference, I remember we all had happy hour or not happy it was like late hours, like after the party. We all, like, sat in a booth and had nachos together, and

Dan Slagle  40:11

I was called the after party.

Natalie Slagle  40:13

The after yes, I forgot what those are like. And we just had a great time. And it's just been so incredible, Kaylin, to just watch you flourish in this realm. It is so needed, because I think about our client base, and I'm like, it is very few that have a pre or post Nup. It is a very small percentage. And I would say, from your regard, maybe not everybody needs one, but probably more people need one than what's currently out there. So I just really appreciate you being in this space to provide people this opportunity to have these conversations, to do it in a really safe and equitable way. So we're going to have all of the links in our notes, so you know however you're listening to the podcast. Now, just scroll down, and you can contact Caitlin that way. But before we let you go, Caitlin our audience thinking about, you know, our typical client, high earners, probably mostly married already. Like, maybe it's not even to get a post up. I don't, I don't know. But, like, what advice in this topic would you have for our listeners at this time,

Kaylin Dillon  41:23

I would say, just never stop talking about what feels fair or doesn't feel fair like it really should be an ongoing conversation that doesn't stop. And if you've never been good or comfortable with that type of conversation, then you can work on it, because ideally, you're going to keep having those conversations forever. That's just part of the dynamic of a living relationship, and we'd all be better served doing that more. Yeah, love it.

Natalie Slagle  41:53

Thank you so much. Kaylin, we've really enjoyed the conversation. Thanks for having me. Great to see you both. Thank you.

Dan Slagle  42:02

Hey. If you've enjoyed this episode and are looking for personalized financial guidance, schedule a free complimentary consultation using the link in the description below, Natalie and Dan Slagle are the founding partners of Fyooz Financial Planning, a registered investment advisor. The information provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered investment advice or a recommendation to buy or sell any securities investing involves risk, including the potential loss of principal. Advisory services are offered to clients or prospective clients where Fyooz Financial Planning and its representatives are properly licensed or exempt from licensure. For more information, including our disclosures, please visit our website@www.fyoozfinancial.com.

‍

‍

‍

‍

‍

‍

‍